ok first ( just how do you view posts before posting ) i have to keep referring back to previous posts to agree or disagree !) . the founding father argument does not wash at all. bush no more represents puritanism ( in the view it was held then ) than i do now . some things do not work by generalisation . seeking a core for todays ills is a mistake i think ( kind of like looking for a begining of the universe) . we know it should be there but observations conclude the stars are moving toward us as much as they are moving away ( and remains true for any point in space ). continually we attempt to make sense and allay blame to a particular point in time . the truth is far harsher . some people want me dead some people want you dead , our lives are conducted on a human scale , no university education prepares you for this . i protect myself and my life by any means if i am to die it will be by my hand and not some other schmucks whim.( ok ok i got carried away